Design for Every Body

Released March 31, 2026 

PODCAST OPEN: Thank you for tuning in to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, produced as a public service by the Arthritis Foundation. You may have arthritis, but arthritis doesn’t have you. Here, you’ll get information, insights and tips you can trust — featuring volunteer hosts and guest experts who live with arthritis every day and have experience with the challenges it can bring. Their unique perspectives may help you — wherever you are in your arthritis journey. The Arthritis Foundation is committed to helping you live your best life through our wide-ranging programs, resources and services. Our podcast is made possible in part by the generous financial contributions of people like you. Now let’s listen in. (MUSIC BRIDGE) 

Cristina Schaefer: Hi, welcome to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast. I'm Cristina Schaefer, your host for this episode. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in 2004 and have been living with the ups, downs and in-betweens of this disease ever since. If you've ever struggled with products or packaging — hello plastic clamshell — you've turned to the right episode. There is a growing trend in modern products and packaging today, and it's one we can all benefit from, especially those of us with arthritis, joint pain or physical limitations. That trend is accessible or user-friendly design. 

But what exactly is accessible or user-friendly design? What elements must a product or packaging have to be, quote-unquote, “accessible”? What factors are driving this trend? The aging population, DEI, ADA compliance or maybe just a growing acceptance of accessibility as a need for so many. In this episode, we're going to take a closer look at accessible or user-friendly design and answer these and many more questions. We'll explore not only how it can help your daily life and key examples, but also a unique program from the Arthritis Foundation that champions this trend. 

To help us in this conversation, I'm joined by two very seasoned expert guests, Cheryl Crow and Dr. Bobbie Watts. Cheryl is an occupational therapist, founder of The Arthritis Life and longtime volunteer and associate of the Arthritis Foundation. She is also the host of her own podcast, The Arthritis Life podcast, and leads Rheum to Thrive, an online self-management course and support group where she helps people adjust to their conditions and manage the full spectrum of how inflammatory arthritis affects your life beyond joint pain. 

And we also have Dr. Watts, who is director of engineering for the Arthritis Foundation's TILT Ease of Use Lab. Dr. Watts is a nationally recognized expert in ergonomics, human factors and inclusive design, who helps research and design teams create consumer packaging that works for real people. She is also the author of Ergonomics and Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, Theory and Practice, and is past president of the IISE Applied Ergonomic Society. Cheryl and Dr. Watts, welcome to the podcast. 

Cheryl Crow: Thanks so much for having me. 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: Glad to be here. 

Cristina Schaefer: We'd love to hear a little bit from each of you about yourselves and your experiences with arthritis. Cheryl, we'll start with you. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, so I am 44 years old now, and I was diagnosed at age 21 with rheumatoid arthritis, so a little over half my life ago. I've had lots of ups and downs since my diagnosis. I've had periods of complete medicated remission and then periods of really bad disease activity, particularly after my pregnancy. So, you know, when I became an occupational therapist, I learned so, so many tools for how to protect my joints and how to adapt how I was performing daily activities so I could accommodate for pain. 

But what I was surprised by is that so many of these techniques, tips and tricks never really made their way to patients. So many patients never get taught in joint protection principles or even just given an evaluation by an occupational or physical therapist. So, I've been enjoying sharing my tips and tools through social media outreach and my programs. But also really excited that accessibility and inclusive design is now becoming more mainstream. 

Cristina Schaefer: Thank you for that. And Dr. Watts? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: I'm coming at it from a different perspective, so I'm going to be sharing my experiences as an engineer and a designer. So, I have been a professional human factors engineer or ergonomist — whichever one you prefer, they're the same thing — so, I've been doing that for over 29 years. But as a human factors engineer, we're often tasked with having to design processes, products and experiences so that there's what we call a balance between the person and the work. Basically, making sure that the work isn't asking too much of what the person can do. 

So, to do this, we have to have a user-centric mindset, meaning we start with the person and design around them. If you start with the human, everything else falls into place. As someone who personally doesn't have arthritis, it's imperative — whether it's me or another engineer — that we recognize our own limitations, and we marry our engineering knowledge with the experiences and voices of those that live with the condition day in and day out. And I'll share more about the details of our Ease of Use Lab a little later on in the podcast. But with any usability testing, the user, and in our case, users with arthritis, and their feedback is going to be the linchpin of how we assess the usability of design. So, that's the perspective I'm bringing here. 

Cristina Schaefer: Thank you for that. What is accessible or user-friendly design? And is there a difference between the two? Or which is the correct terminology? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: It's a great question. So, for me in our professional engineering circles, our ergonomists and human factor circles, we do tend to geek out over the definitions. But in everyday conversations, these terms, they tend to overlap because we all share the same goal, which is to make life easier. So, sometimes you'll hear these terms used interchangeably, I'll probably do it throughout this podcast, but there are some nuances between them. When you think about accessible design, I think of that as making products and/or experiences usable by people with specific functional limitations or capabilities, so individuals with disabilities. 

Think screen readers or mobile screen readers for those with no or low vision. A user-friendly design is more about the general vibe and ensuring that the product and experience isn't frustrating to use. So, when we think about all of that in our lab, we actually push for inclusive design. So, you’ve got another term to add to the mix. But with inclusive design, the design approach means that we take into account the wide range of needs and capabilities, including limitations of end users from the very beginning. And with that design approach, the ease of use of a product's design isn't a special feature, it's something that's added on afterwards. It's actually the heart of the product's DNA, and that will naturally improve a person's overall experience with it. 

Cristina Schaefer: Excellent. How does accessible design help people with arthritis? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: As I mentioned, I don't have arthritis, but in talking with individuals and learning about the struggles that they deal with, and the pain points they deal with day in and day out, for someone with arthritis, inclusive design can mean the difference between independence and frustration. Some of the things we look for when we're doing a usability assessment in the Ease of Use Lab is, and this is just a short list; we actually have a long list of things we're looking at. For example, we're looking for low physical effort. Can you open a jar without feeling like you just went toe to toe with a heavyweight boxer? 

Comfortable grip. We look for comfortable materials and make sure that it's not slippery. Or if the diameter is too large or too small, causing awkward postures or painful grips. Intuitiveness. So, really thinking about it from the cognitive and sensory side: Is it obvious to use? And I don't know about you, but if you're in pain, the last thing you want to do is wade through a 50-page manual to try to figure out what button to push. So, that's just a snippet of what we assess when we do a usability assessment. But bringing it back to daily life, inclusive design really means that those small design features… It could really mean the difference between effortlessly buttoning up a shirt or struggling with it for five minutes. And I'm sure you would rather preserve your energy for those things you want to do rather than wasting it on things you shouldn't have to struggle with in the first place. 

Cristina Schaefer: Cheryl, how has it personally helped you? 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, I love this question. And I think in occupational therapy, we're very similar to ergonomists. The first question I would ask the client, or I would ask myself if applying my principles to my own life, is: Walk me through a day in your life. And what are all the things that are challenging for you? That could be with, for me, living with rheumatoid arthritis and inflammatory autoimmune form of arthritis, it's not just... I consider the low hanging fruit of: Are things like, you know, physical difficulty, manipulating objects, whether that's holding my hairbrush or whether that's putting on makeup or lifting a cup to my mouth to drink water. That's the really, really obvious stuff. But there's also the kind of under-the-iceberg symptoms, like cognitive dysfunction is a direct symptom of inflammatory arthritis. 

So, it's not just we're tired from managing things. It's literally a sign of the inflammation of running rampant. It affects your brain and your ability to think. So, we have cognitive dysfunction or “brain fog,” and also fatigue. It's not just the physical what's-happening-in-the-joints, it's everything that's spreading out from that inflammation. And also, just like Bobbie said, we, as OTs, we assess the match between the person and the environment. So, you know, I could imagine a thought experiment where someone like me, I have a lot of privileges, and I have a lot of support. I have a lot of psychosocial support and environmental support in my environment and that I could afford a lot of… But I call them, I sometimes call them life hack gadgets, but they're really, like, accessible products. 

And whereas someone else who might not have access to those is going to have a lot harder time in daily life. So, having a toolbox of things that make my daily tasks easier, and also includes a toolbox of things that, even if I'm in remission or not having any symptoms, I still practice joint protection strategies or good ergonomics. Because it's putting my body in the best position long term for preventing repetitive stress injuries and potentially slowing down the development of osteoarthritis, for example. So, it's a lot of things; those are just a few. 

Cristina Schaefer: When we're thinking about these products, how is accessible design helpful to everyone, not just people with mobility issues or people living with arthritis. 

Cheryl Crow: Even if you don't have arthritis, I think almost everyone has that universal experience of trying to open that clamshell package, or trying to get the… I don't know what they're called, but if you get, like, a thing of orange juice or milk, sometimes you have that tiny little tab to try to get off. I think another phrase that I meant to say earlier is universal design. So, there's all these phrases like accessible design, universal design. And what's great about the idea of universal design is it's creating the environment and products that are inherently accessible to everyone. And a great example of that is, like, a wheelchair ramp. People, they make a wheelchair ramp to improve access to a wheelchair user, but who also benefits from that? All people who are caregivers of small children who are using a stroller. There's so many additional benefits to making things accessible and also, as most people maybe have heard this already, but disability is the one minority category that anyone can join at any time in their life, and it's practically inevitable to some degree. So, it's just a good idea for everyone, to make things accessible. I'm obviously unbiased in this area. (laughs) Yeah, Bobbie, what would you add to that? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: We could probably do a podcast just talking about universal design and all of things that show that universal design, inclusive design, whatever we want to call it, it is a win for everyone. And that's a hill that I will die on. It's what I am dedicating my whole career to, because I really believe it. You gave some great examples. You talked about the wheelchair ramp. It's useful for not just individuals’ wheelchairs, but everybody that needs to... I mean, if they don't want to take the stairs that day, but definitely lots of benefits outside of what it was designed for. Another great one that everybody, pretty much everybody, uses is text messaging. And that was originally assistive technology, but now it's a universal go-to for everyone that, with a smartphone, mostly everyone, you can't imagine your life without it. 

So yeah, again, we can go on and on, and so many great examples. And these are what we call the curb cut effect, which is when the design is focused on meeting the needs of those in the margins, that design can be beneficial for everyone. So, when products are designed with the arthritis community in mind, meaning it prioritizes ease of grip, low force, all of those things — those products are also easy to use for, say, a tired parent that literally has their hands full of a baby. It could be a person who just broke their arm and they're trying to navigate their new reality. Or just someone trying to open up a jar of peanut butter while they're multitasking. So, if it's easier for someone with limited dexterity, it's easy for everyone, because good design is just good design. 

PROMO: The Arthritis Foundation’s Ease of Use program evaluates products and packaging to ensure they’re accessible for individuals with arthritis. This helps consumers identify tools and items that are easier to handle, promoting greater independence and quality of life. By advocating for user-friendly designs, the program benefits not only those with arthritis but also just about anyone. See what we’ve certified at arthritis.org/easeofuse. 

Cristina Schaefer: What are the motivating factors or influences behind accessible design? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: There are several factors at play, leading to what we're hearing is the louder call, the calls coming from inside the house, of course, but we're hearing it outside, where people are calling for more inclusive design. And there's a number of reasons for that, of course. We have the aging population. Older adults are the fastest growing consumer demographic. We’ve got to remember: Consumers really drive a lot of change here, and older adults are the fastest growing segment. And guess what comes with aging? Something that's similar to what we're seeing with the arthritis community, which is changes in dexterity, changes in strength, but also you have changes in vision and hearing. So, there's that need to address those limitations for that particular market. 

You also have companies that are finally recognizing that inclusive design, having a focus on that, is a vital part for their broader commitment to DEI. When you look at the legal landscape, ADA compliance, if we're talking specifically in the U.S., we're seeing people having increasing expectations, and they're doing it through litigation around accessibility. And lastly, consumer expectations, honestly, people are just more aware now, and they're demanding better. And I mentioned the older population, but if we think about the arthritis community, with 60 million people with medically diagnosed arthritis alone, that is a very strong and loud voice that can't and shouldn't be ignored. So, what we're hearing is the conversation shifting from “Should we do this?” to “How do we do this well?” 

Cristina Schaefer: Excellent. 

Cheryl Crow: Those are all great examples of the motivating factors. And the other one I just thought of is: I think there's been, with the rise of social media and influencer culture… There's obviously some negatives that can come from that, but one of the most positive things for me is: I think that it has helped contribute to a de-stigmatization of mental and physical disabilities. We're seeing more celebrities, more people with influence than ever, talking about their daily challenges, whether that's, you know, Selena Gomez talking about having both bipolar disorder and lupus. And she actually said the word arthritis, which is very unusual for a younger celebrity to talk about having a condition like arthritis, because it is so associated with being older. And there's a stigma against, you know, the elderly, and there's ageism and all sorts of things. 

But I think about me, having rheumatoid arthritis, thinking about how they're… I don't even know who some of my heroes of stage and screen, whether they really had arthritis or not, because no one talked about it. You know, Lucille Ball famously is rumored to have had rheumatoid arthritis, but nobody knows for sure because there was such a stigma. Now we have people like Selena Gomez talking about lupus. We have Dan Reynolds talking about having ankylosing spondylitis. We have so many... I'm a Swifty, but Kim Kardashian, I applaud her for talking about having psoriatic arthritis, and it's really these people who are known as, like, you know, Kim Kardashian, Selena Gomez, beautiful people are then saying, "This is an accessibility thing that I use," and they're not ashamed of it. And it's really helping younger people in particular. I'm 44, I'm like, "Young people like me." But, you know, feel more confident in saying, " I want to use these accessible things. I don't want to think of myself as less than because I have arthritis." 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: That was an excellent point. 

Cristina Schaefer: Yeah, and I think you're right. You know, whether it's through influencers or seeing that in pop culture, it really opens eyes of everyone, day-to-day people that are going to be using these products — consumers, as we said earlier, but also to these companies that are creating products — it really does open people's eyes. So, thank you for that answer. What role has the Arthritis Foundation played in accessible design? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: I will say the Arthritis Foundation has been a leader in this movement, and that was well before me even coming on board. I'm still new to the Arthritis Foundation, but I am just in awe of what the Arthritis Foundation has done. And as a recent outsider and professional, it really is impressive because we, the Arthritis Foundation, we're just not advocating to manufacturers for better products. We're actually building a systematic, scientific approach to evaluating products with individuals with arthritis that has... I would say we cultivated a program that celebrates companies that emphasize successful, inclusive design. 

We do that with our certification seal. And then, through our consultation services to manufacturers, we also have a program that partners with companies that want to implement inclusive design but are not sure how to, so we become a partner there. And beyond that, we've worked with giants like Target on packaging design guidelines, and that is to help spread the principles and practicalities of inclusive design to designers, package designers, and again, in the effort to make inclusive design the standard versus being a nice to have. 

Cristina Schaefer: Well, with that, tell us a little bit about the Ease of Use program. What is it? How does it work? And what is some of the impact that we've seen from it? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: My favorite thing to talk about, yes. I'm like, this is my passion. I love it. It is a great opportunity for me to be a part of this, and I may be a bit biased because I work directly with the program, but I genuinely believe that it's one of the most rigorous and meaningful certification programs out there. And that is a big thing to say, and I really believe in that. So, in the Ease of Use Lab, we evaluate products based on how easy they are to use for people with arthritis. That means testing those critical forces and other relevant physical and cognitive demands that a product requires every time you do something with it, such as opening it, closing, squeezing, using it, storing it and even reading displays. So, we have to look at everything to see: Is there an imbalance from what is asking from a person with arthritis? 

Outside of that, and this is probably the secret sauce, is that we bring in real people with various levels of arthritis to thoroughly assess their interaction with and the impression of the product. So, products that pass our criteria, they do earn an Ease of Use seal, and that is a trusted signal to consumers, that this has been tested, and it works for people with limited function, strength and/or dexterity. But those that don't get the seal, they do get detailed feedback to help them improve their designs. And along that line, these are products that are coming to us for that final product, to assess the usability, but we're wanting to get in there earlier in the design phase. So, we also offer customized consulting with companies, or where companies can connect with us throughout any phase of their design process, to collaborate on design guidance and not just at the end of the designing process. 

I would say, lastly, that impact of our program is that consumers get the confidence that products that have the seal have been designed with their needs in mind. And manufacturers get insights to lead to better designs. And as we mentioned before, that's often for everybody, all users. And increasingly, what we're seeing is that companies are applying these principles across their entire product line, and honestly, that is when real systematic change happens. That's when inclusive design just becomes a way of doing business, and we're glad to be a part of that. 

Cristina Schaefer: Well, that's really exciting. Thank you for telling us about that. 

Cheryl Crow: As an Arthritis Foundation volunteer and occupational therapist living with RA, it really is exciting to see the Arthritis Foundation prioritize the ease of use for the products, because it's just something that affects everyone's daily life on such a granular level. When I started making content on social media, sharing about… I made my own little kind of organic, just like, “Here's what I used to open my jars in my kitchen” or something. What surprised me was how many people would open up in the comments about the emotional toll it takes on them to not be able to perform daily activities, how demoralizing it can feel… There's a grieving process. 

I know there's been other podcast episodes about this for the Arthritis Foundation, but the grieving process of, like, the old you. It's kind of a process going on in your head. But then when you're in your daily life, trying to do something you used to be able to do so easily, like, just put on your lip liner or your lipstick, and now you can't even open the stupid lipstick container, it's so frustrating. I just want to put in the emotional part of why this is so important, to really helping improve the patient's quality of life. It's beyond just making a product better. It's helping them be able to interact in the world with more ease. I keep wanting to say ease. (laughs) Ease of Use. It's really great. Yes. 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: Yeah. I mean, and that's exactly what we want designers, individuals that are designing these products… And I say experiences as well, because it really is impacting quality of life. And they really need to understand that something that may be simple to them could be very difficult for somebody with arthritis. And they need to take that into account with their design. And we want to celebrate those companies that are doing that with their design, but also help them to get to that point. So, very touching they hear that, because it is an emotional thing. 

PROMO: Registering for the Arthritis Foundation’s Walk to Cure Arthritis gives you the chance to raise awareness and funds for arthritis research and support. Fundraising efforts are essential for advancing arthritis treatments and improving people’s lives. We’ll help you create your own fundraising page and engage family, friends, co-workers and others in your community to join you in supporting our important cause. Sign up at walktocurearthritis.org. 

Cristina Schaefer: I want to just really highlight here the Arthritis Foundation. It's not just, you know, highlighting these products, but it's really providing hope for people who maybe feel hopeless. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to over the years in my volunteerism with the Arthritis Foundation who've said things like, "I've just given up on curling my hair." Or, you know, "That task at home, I just don't do that. That's for my spouse to take care of because I can't." And they've just kind of given up hope on certain things and just decided that's something they can no longer do. And when you take a look at that list of products and see, "Well, maybe there's an option here for you. Maybe there's some hope." So, I really applaud the Arthritis Foundation for this program. I think it's wonderful, and it's so very necessary. What are some examples of accessible design, either in the Ease of Use program or not? Cheryl, I know you have a whole list of them. Do you want to share a couple with us? 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. So, I was fortunate that, because I've volunteered with the Foundation, and they know I'm obsessed with this stuff … The TILT brand sent me their lipsticks and lip liners, and I really loved… First of all, you could tell a company really thinks through this when the package that they send it in is easy to open, literally the mailing package. (laughs) The thing about the lipsticks is the tube: It's wider than usual. And the top, when you take it off to get the lipstick out, it has a little bit of a magnetic thing that it's easier to close when you put it back on. It's designed so that it flares out a little bit at the bottom, so it's a really comfortable grip. And the material it's made of also on the outside is easier to grip. 

All of us with arthritis have had the experience of dropping things accidentally. So, it's easier to hold. They thought through everything. The material within the lipstick is also specifically designed for people who have sensitive skin, which is really common with all forms of inflammatory arthritis, but particularly psoriatic arthritis. So, I really love that. And also, the Dr. Grip pens, I mean, those are classics. I've used those before I even became an occupational therapist. Those are, you know, a really comfortable grip. Again, wide grips are usually really good for all kinds of hand arthritis. And those are my top two from the Ease of Use program that I personally use. Yeah. What about you, Bobbie? 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: I was going to bring up the example of the Dr. Grip. It's one of the best pens. And I'm very persnickety when it comes to my pens. (laughs) But this has a smooth writing, but even just from the gripping. And again, I mentioned I don't have arthritis, but even for me, just to have that grip, and the diameter's not too big, not too small. So, again, those are some of the things we were looking for, and this is why this particular pen was able to pass the Ease of Use certification. And you mentioned TILT. I mean, one of the first beauty brands to have the Ease of Use seal. So, that is huge, just for them to think through that whole process, because again, it's about that user experience from the beginning to the end. 

You'll see all of the products on our website, like gardening tools, medical devices, personal care. They're pretty much products that you're going to see and use every day because that's kind of the point. We're looking at everyday living. What are those pain points that individuals with arthritis, what they're struggling with. And we are actively working to expand that list. Exciting things to come. 

Cristina Schaefer: There's some great things on there. I think some of the most important, at least to me, in my opinion, are the ones that are centered around medicine. I had a medication I'm no longer taking, had an Ease of Use top on it. It had the Arthritis Foundation stamp of approval on the front of it saying that it was approved for ease of use. But even with a self-injectable, I was on a self-injectable years ago prior to them making it a little easier to use, and it was next to impossible. I actually could not give it to myself. And when my doctor put me back on a self-injectable not that long ago, I expressed that concern. And he said, "Oh, no, they've made it a lot easier to use." So, I love to see that growing list. And again, I think it's so important the Arthritis Foundation is working so closely with different manufacturers to create more products. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I was looking at the list again and remembering the IMAK Compression Gloves. Those are my favorite. They have the perfect blend of, like, comfortable texture with the right amount of compression for me. And so, I actually use those when I'm swing dancing sometimes. It helps with hand pain, but also reminding, like, the partners I'm dancing with that, "Oh, you’ve got to be a little more careful with my hands than usual." And this last one, this is not part of Ease of Use yet. Hopefully it will, hopefully they'll apply, but Selena Gomez put out the first ever, that I'm aware of, accessibly designed perfume bottle, or inclusively designed perfume. 

And if you think about your traditional perfume bottle, it's like the top of it… You have this little thing that you depress with your pointer finger, and it's so dang hard to press down, and you press really hard, and it's virtually impossible for people with hand arthritis. And so she designed it so the whole, at the top is about, I don't know, two and a half, three inches wide, and you can press down on it with the palm of your hand. If you don't even have a hand, like, let's say someone's amputee or congenital limb difference, you can press down on it with your elbow. So, it's just a beautiful design. 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: Absolutely. I would love to test that through our lab. So hopefully we can make that happen. 

Cristina Schaefer: Before each episode, we post a question on social media. And for this episode, we asked: "What do you buy because it's simply easier to open or use?" And we got a ton of responses on this, and we selected a few to go through today. And we'd love to get some of your thoughts on a few of these responses if you have them. Starting with Alan Portman who said, "I hoard non-child lock pill bottles." 

Cheryl Crow: (laughs) Yeah, that's great. I second that one. And know that you can also, depending on the place where you get your pharmaceuticals, you can ask them to take the normal child lock top and flip it around, and make it easier to open. So, some of them allow that. But yeah, that's great. 

Cristina Schaefer: Yeah. Miranda said, "My 12-year-old with JA finds it easier to use his Smile toothpaste in a pump bottle versus the tube brands, and an electric toothbrush is easier to hold." And then they also added, "I love this post because it's helpful to us to find things that may help her." 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: I would say from an ergonomist, that just makes sense with the pumping, and going back to what Cheryl was saying about the perfume bottle, it's just making a wider surface instead of just focusing on one or two digits or having to squeeze something. So again, ergonomics and human factors is involved in this, taking those principles, but just expanding it, again focusing on the usability for the arthritis community. 

Cristina Schaefer: Shannon had a long list of items. She said, "Any bag or item with wheels, grocery delivery service, toiletries with pumps, rechargeable hand warmers for hand pain, laundry sheets, elastic waist pants, flowy dresses, slip-on shoes, wrinkle-free clothing or laundry service, cordless and lightweight everything, motion sensor lights inside, solar lights outside, lamps with pull strings and spray lotions." I think we've found somebody that could maybe add to your list there, Cheryl, of items that might be helpful to your patients. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, and I think when she mentioned the pants and dresses and slip-on shoes, that reminded me, if you're interested: There's a whole area of, like, accessible clothing. And one of the things that people have been the most interested in when I've posted about it has been magnetic closure bras, because bras can be so, so tricky, especially if you have shoulder arthritis. 

Cristina Schaefer: I'm going to read through a few more of these and then give you both a chance to add in any other thoughts on these comments, because there were so many great ones that we wanted to just touch on. Carol said, "Frozen or cut vegetables. They soften quickly because they've been frozen. There's no chopping." Angela said, "Vertical ergonomic mouse for work." Laura Jo said, "Laundry sheets instead of jugs of laundry soap that are too heavy, smaller milk containers that are more costly than a gallon of milk, but easier to hold." Trisha, adding onto the laundry here, says, "Tide pods instead of liquid detergent." And you can also use dishwasher pods instead of liquid or powder, too, so that's an option. Katie mentioned sports bras rather than clasp-fastened bras. And Rhonda said, "Fatigue mats on the floor, a long one that goes in front of the sink, counter and stove, and a smaller one in front of my island. It makes standing better as I love to cook." 

Cheryl Crow: I think that's just a testament to the wisdom of the community and the wisdom of the lived experience. You know, there's often a saying, like: Patients are the experts in their care, and they're the experts in this case in the daily living adaptations. So, I think that's great. 

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Cristina Schaefer: To close each episode, we typically share our top three takeaways from the episode. So, I'll start with you, Cheryl. What were your top three takeaways from today's episode? 

Cheryl Crow: I mean, I think my first one is pretty basic: Accessibility or universal design or inclusive design helps everyone. It's not just a special thing to do for people with health conditions or disabilities. And then, you know, the Ease of Use program, I mean, not to take away probably Bobbie's takeaway (laughs), but that's a great resource, a great starting point, for finding things that might be easier for you to use in your daily life. And the last one I would just say is that when you go through your daily life, know that you can start looking at almost like a detective that maybe there's a different way to do what you've always done. It doesn't have to be a product. It also could be: Can you interact differently with the products that you already own in a way that protects your joints? Because oftentimes we're just on autopilot. The products can help greatly in reducing the joint strain, but also you could, if you're like, "I don't want to have to buy 100 things all of a sudden," try to think about how you can adapt your approach to the objects you already have. 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: I would agree with everything Cheryl said. I would just add, for me, if the product is hard to use, it's a design flaw. It's not a personal flaw. I say that even in working in industry: It's a system flaw. So, your hands aren't the problem; it's the design. And we should all demand better. And I, again, I'll say over, I mean, 60 million voices is a force that is very hard to ignore. Dittoing what Cheryl said about the Ease of Use. Start with the Ease of Use program. Look for those companies that have the seal; look for the seal. It means that real people with arthritis have tested and approved it, and it's another way to celebrate and support companies taking that step, which is helping us to make inclusive design the standard. 

And the last thing I would add is, again, I repeat what Cheryl said was: Inclusive design is a win for everyone. And I'll say that what works for individuals with arthritis will most likely work better for everyone. That's because inclusive design doesn't work, without the inclusion of the people who need to be included. So, if there is an opportunity to partake in any product testing or any with the Ease of Use Lab, because we are looking for volunteers there. So, I'll be talking with you, Cheryl. Or just a survey. Your voice really, really matters, because the best inclusive design is when it's done with the community and not just for it. So, those are my takeaways. 

Cristina Schaefer: Well, for me, I’m obviously a big fan of the Ease of Use program. I've been following this program since before I think it had a name and did some testing very early on, so I'm excited to see how far it's come. One thing that Cheryl mentioned was multiple layers to the accessibility. For example, it might be something that's difficult to open, but also there may be skin sensitivity issues or different things like that. It's not just maybe the obvious accessibility issues when it comes to some of these products. And then something else that Dr. Watts said: that manufacturers are paying more attention to accessible design. It impacts their bottom line and, you know, if that's what it takes, then we'll take it, right? I think that's really exciting that more and more companies are kind of waking up to the idea that this is really important, and their products need to be accessible for everyone. Well, with that, I wanted to thank you both for your time today. I thought this was a wonderful discussion. I know I learned a lot, and I'm sure the people that are listening in did as well. 

Dr. Bobbie Watts: Well, thank you for having me. I love talking about this, so anytime, ask me back. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Thank you so much. And can I share one last thought? One thing that often comes up when I recommend these products to people is they feel embarrassed to use something different than what everyone else is using. Especially with things that are highly visible, like compression gloves. I often use the analogy of wearing eyeglasses. Like, do you feel embarrassed having to wear eyeglasses? I don't feel embarrassed or ashamed to do that, so why should I feel ashamed for using a daily living aid? It's a very common stage people go through. Speaking to somebody who's had this for 23 years, it's going to be helpful to confront your internalized ableism and realize that there should be no shame in doing things differently because of your arthritis. So, if that's preventing you from taking the plunge and trying some of these products, that's my little pep talk. Unsolicited pep talks, that's my specialty. 

Cristina Schaefer: Thank you for that. Well, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in today. For more arthritis resources, including information about the Ease of Use program, please visit arthritis.org/easeofuse. And to share your thoughts and ideas about the podcast, email us at [email protected]. 

PODCAST CLOSE: Thank you for listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, produced as a public service by the Arthritis Foundation. Get show notes and other episode details at arthritis.org/podcast. Review, rate and recommend us wherever you get your podcasts, on Apple, Spotify and other platforms. This podcast and other life-changing Arthritis Foundation programs, resources and services are made possible in part by generous donors like you. Consider making a gift to support our work at arthritis.org/donate. We appreciate you listening. And please join us again!